This topic contains 54 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by Dave B 1 week, 5 days ago.
March 7, 2012 at 3:42 am #1239
Dr. Ben –
Do you know of any research that you can point me to in regards to MTHFR and vaccines/immunizations. I know it is a stretch considering how little information on this is out there mainstream. I know it generally is thought of as being not advisable in those with MTHFR and my gut tells me not to do it, but I’m having trouble presenting our case to the pediatrician. Our pediatrician outright stated tonight that vaccines are not contraindicated in folks with MTHFR (and PANDAS, our sons other condition). My concern is his ability to detoxify heavy metals and methylation issues (due to MTHFR, Homozygeous C677T) and his compromised immune system/autoimmunity issues (due to PANDAS). Both issues scream to me that vaccines would not be advisable but he stated that neither condition are contraindicated for his upcoming 4 yr vaccines. Urgently looking to see if I can find any studies that might suggest otherwise to send to him. It sounds as though he may be open to testing his antibody titer levels to the vaccines to get an indication of his current level of protection. I plan on pushing for this to help guide the discussion but I’m not sure it will do much to resolve the disagreement. I’m in need of more supporting documentation from sources that he may respect, but I’ll take any research I can get.
EmilyMarch 11, 2012 at 6:23 am #1297
I saw your post and had to respond. I do not have the studies on this topic. I was researching this very topic when I came across your post. But what struck me is that you feel you have to argue and plead your case in how you raise your child. This is YOUR child. The function of a pediatrician is not to stand over you, like a boss, and order you how to raise your child. These decisons are yours to make, not the doctor’s. If your doctor leaves you having to argue with him or her, then you should find a different doctor. Doctors like this will cross the line in many areas. They have God-complexes. You do not need someone who thinks they are your boss, being hired by you. You are the customer. YOU are paying the doctor, not the other way around. The doctor works for you, not the other way around. You are the one who is accountable for what happens to your child. If your child gets sick or ends up with permanent damage from these shots, you cannot run back to the doctor and expect him to be accountable. You are the one your child has to watch out for him, not your doctor. Don’t let some doctor push you around. Remember, YOU pay the doctor to work for you, not the other way around.March 16, 2012 at 12:29 am #1346
We have the MTHFR and PANDAS. Our immunologist and our holistic medicine doc said NO VACCINES at least until we get the immune system rectified. You have NOTHING to lose by waiting. Our DAN doc said that vaccines today are not even vaccinating against diseases as they present today. In hindsight, I wish I had not given them in the past. The HINI flu vaccine is what sent my kids over the edge two years ago. I say proceed with caution……you can always add them in later but you won;t be able to undo it if they have a bad reaction. Of course, you know what the situation is better than anyone.March 16, 2012 at 2:58 pm #1351
You can change doctors. I was told by a person with an autistic son (that she was sure was caused from vaccinations) that you can order shots without the mercury, and space them far apart. But if it were me, I would not even chance that without expert opinion from someone like Ben. Trust your gut instincts.March 19, 2012 at 5:58 am #1394
Hi Emily –
I am glad you are receiving some help and opinions from others on this very important – yet heated – topic.
Personally, I would not recommend vaccinating any child with a homozygous MTHFR mutation – unless it was a potentially life-threatening problem or a very high risk infant/child.
The three most important things in an infant for immune support are:
– Vitamin D3
– breast milk
– clean environment (low toxins in the home/baby crib/bath/toys..) I always add more than I originally state
It is not only about thimerosol in vaccines – it is also the adjuvants which stimulate the hell out of one’s immune system – thereby making one susceptible to autoimmune conditions or overactive immune systems in general – such as allergies.
I’ve had many patients – and friends with children – that share stories of how their child shut down after vaccinations.
With that said, I highly recommend reading some of the books found on my recommended reading list. – especially Changing the Course of Autism – as the author goes into great depth on vaccinations.
Keep in mind also that you do not know of other potential mutations your children/infant may have – such as those which amplify the immune system, shut down the ability to detox further or aggravate neurotransmitters. When you combine these possible mutations along with MTHFR and vaccinations – it is a recipe for autism.March 19, 2012 at 5:59 am #1395
RIGHT ON!March 19, 2012 at 6:05 am #1397
I have to side with Lisa on this one.
You have to find a pediatrician that allows you to think and do what you think is best for you and your children.
It is not up to you to dig for research to present to the doctor.
It is up to the doctor to present research to you – that is their job – to educate you.
You know what ‘doctor’ means? It comes from the word, “docere” which means…’to educate’
If your doctor is not educating you – but rather being ‘high horsed’ and arrogant, get the hell out of there before their ruin you and your child.
This one decision could ruin your child for life or for a decade – not to mention $10,000’s of dollars of you trying to get your child back.
Your doctor is wrong here and you are right.
Methylation is seriously defective and if you give vaccinations to your child now, there can be serious harm done.
I should also say that when patients bring studies into doctors to see/read, 90% of them will say, ‘Uh huh’ and trash it without reading. They are busy and have no time to be taught by patients.
I humbly do get taught by clients and people all the time. Doctors are human and do not have the almighty knowledge on every topic imaginable. I don’t.
I know when to say, “I don’t know.” and refer out.
Does your doctor?March 19, 2012 at 6:54 am #1401
Wow – hot topic!! I am 34 and homozygous for C677T (not sure of A1298C status).
Before I knew about this I consented to having pneumovax to see if I can produce antibodies as I had/have an IgG subclass deficiency.
I’ve had CFS-type problems for ten years of more, the last six years has been rough.
Anyway, pretty sure the vaccination kicked off a CFS relapse and I so regret it – not doing that again!!
I also have a condition called pyroluria which depletes my body of zinc – now my zinc and D levels have improved, my immune system has been great. I wouldn’t be surprised ifthe igG subclasses are fixed nowMarch 19, 2012 at 7:04 am #1402
I’m really curious about the PANDAS – I came across this condition when researching strep overgrowth in the gut and mental health issues. I couldn’t find anything related to adults – only info about PANDAS which is a pediatric issue.
I have a strep overgrowth, IgG subclass deficiency, seem to have Hashimoto’s thyroiditid, am homozygous for C677T and have panic disorder – I feel like an adult version of PANDAS.
Would love to hear more from those dealing with PANDAS and strep overgrowth. I’m
currently treating the strep overgrowth with erythromycin.
And what is the connection here between MTHFR and the immune issues and strep issues?March 19, 2012 at 11:18 am #1403
I have multiple food intolerances, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel and depression which I truly believe was triggered by the hep b vaccine. I just found out I\’m heterozygous for a1298c. I was reading some of Amy Yaskos stuff about how this mutation limits the recycling of something called bh4 which helps you detox substances like ammonia and peroxynitrite. The conversion to bh4 is also hampered by aluminium. This is used as an adjuvant in vaccines. I really wish I hadnt had those vaccine shots but am also grateful I am not homozygous.March 19, 2012 at 1:31 pm #1404
I have two daughters, one 30 yrs old , one 13 yrs. My oldest daughter was raised very alternative for the time. We breastfed for 2 1/2 yrs, had one of the first car seats she was born in a birth home with no medications, we did organic and I made her baby food when we carefully started solids, and we did the family bed. Unfortunately, back then I did not know I could fight the doctor on vaccinations. After her first one she had a seizure. She had hard lumps and got sick after the others. . .and we did not have nearly as many as they have now. My daughter has been sick ever since. After taking the Depoprevara shot for birth control ( against my advice) she gained almost a hundred pounds in less, than six months. My daughter is homozygous for C677T and A1298C. She has fibro, four sleep disorders and other major hormonal problems. She has a long road to getting healthy.
My husband had life threating reactions to vaccinations in the Army twice. . .he eventually was able to leave because he was at one of the Academies.
He has had health problems for the rest of his life culminating in brain surgery last March.
My youngest daughter and my grand son have not had vaccinations and are healthy in every way!
We do think that vaccinations had a hand in health problems even before we knew about the Mthfr gene. I have been searching for years for why my husbands family have so many major health issues.
I spent 30 yrs with doctors who would not listen to us about my husband. Finally found one(who listened and believed us and found the tumor in his pituitary gland. Find a new doctor who at least will be open to you being a partner in your childs health! And listen to your gut!March 19, 2012 at 2:00 pm #1405
i have just recently been diagnosed with homo/C677T, which led me to test my 16 yr old daughter, who is as well homo/C677T….when she was 5 , we lived in Belgium and she received a Men.C vaccine.. literally 14-20 days later she began having absence seizures… i was convinced, then as now that it was directly related to the vaccine…( her paternal uncle has autism which developed shortly after vaccines…)
my daughter took zarontin for several years , was weaned off and has never had another seizure… she has never had a flu shot, nor have i given her the Hp vaccine…now having this new information, i encourage every new parent i know to have their infant tested before starting immunizations…
i have been shocked to learn how many parents in Louisiana are telling me that their doctors have never even heard of this gene mutation….i encourage you all to get the word out….March 19, 2012 at 3:03 pm #1409
I’m sorry, but this topic is where I digress from your advice, and why I am very hesitant to point people to your site, even people with MTHFR. I agree that there are a very, very small majority of the population who should avoid some vaccines. Those with known immune system disorders/response issues come to mind, like the ones who have commented above with previous reactions and those with disorders like PANDAS. I could totally see why those people would need to avoid (or delay) vaccines. However, for the other 99.999% it is dangerous. The tiny amounts of what you call toxins in vaccines are not at toxic doses. Any substance can be lethal if given in high enough doses. Take iron for instance. Iron is necessary in the human body but you can also get toxic doses of it. Many minerals are necessary for proper body function but in high doses, they are toxic. The dose is the toxin, not the substance. So I have to digress with your advice to avoid vaccines.March 19, 2012 at 11:11 pm #1413
Hi Cassie –
Tiny amounts can cause serious issues – especially in those with PANDAS or genetic disorders.
Estrogen levels must be tightly controlled otherwise they lead to blood clots, heart attacks and cancer to name a few.
A physician at the last medical conference told us all something I’ll never forget.
‘Next time someone tells you that a little bit of a toxin or a substance is ok, tell them this:
The amount of total estrogen in 200,000 women adds up to 1 teaspoon.’
The amount of active ingredient in many pharmaceutical drugs are tiny amounts.
There are some parts of the world that demand vaccines and I totally support that.
There are many vaccines here in the USA that I do not agree with – why give an infant Hep B vaccine? Why give a child Hep B? They are not sexually active.
This will always be a heated topic and there is no right or wrong answer.
It simply depends on the individual’s susceptibility and weighing the odds.
What is worse for the specific individual?
– the vaccine
– the potential illness
I respect your opinion.
No one doctor has all the answers and there is not one doctor that you will agree with 100% of the time.
I want to leave you with a video from Ken Cook of the Environmental Working Group. Please start watching at the 1 minute mark.March 20, 2012 at 2:01 am #1421
To Cassie and people of like mind….have you read active ingredients of vaccines? inactive ingredients? Purposes of those ingredients? Carcinogenics of those ingredients? Have you looked at statistics about immunity that results for vaccines? The science behind herd immunity? Do you know that the viruses used in vaccines are grown on sometimes cancerous, tumorous cells that can not be completely removed from the vaccines because it will kill the actual virus to be sterilized to that degree?
Before you weigh your pros and cons on vaccinating vs. not vaccinating read the CDC’s own statistics regarding vaccines as well as the FDAs you will certainly be surprised. I myself will wait until the FDA has the technology to provide adequate quality standards and remove neurotoxins from the vaccines. To me the off chance of catching a disease that was already on the outs before the vaccines and letting my body naturally fight it are better odds than injecting cancer cells along with toxins that will undoubtedly cause health affects that will impeded the quality of life I see for myself and my family. Even provax people will tell you that there are genetic predispositions for vaccine reactions….MTHFR is one of them! Do a couple of searches for HELA cells and vaccines as well as what the aluminum’s purpose as a adjuvant and its connection to allergy. Combine that with a predisposition to hold onto toxins and its kind of scary! I hope you will look into it further before completely ruling out the benefits to second guessing vaccines!March 20, 2012 at 5:58 pm #1431
Melissa. Thank you for your concern. I researched vaccines years ago when I had an 11 week premature baby. He was immune suppressed to a degree because of respiratory infections and being intubated at birth. I looked at “science” on both sides of the argument. I just could not find anything to convince me that getting a VPD is better than getting the vaccine. For him to have contracted a VPD as an infant would have been devastating to his low immune system. He’s gotten all of his vaccines so far and so have my other 2 children. I have no regrets.
Consider this. How much more toxin are you ingesting through your lungs and digestive tract everyday! How many days or hours would you have to breathe to ingest the same amount of ingredients in a lifetime fo vaccines. It’s a matter of perspective and weighing the pros and cons. As a mother, I want to protect my children from deadly diseases. Spacing them out is understandable if you choose, but totally avoiding them, to me, is life threatening.March 20, 2012 at 6:09 pm #1432
I guess having a daughter who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine at 2 puts things into a different perspective as to what is life threatening and what is over kill. If you did the research years ago then you probably were dealing with a different schedule as well. I am 30 and when I was getting my vaccines there were 10 shots, not there are in the 30s. That is a huge leap and one that has unfortunately come with a great increase in many conditions and chronic illness.March 20, 2012 at 6:20 pm #1434
It was only 7 years ago, so I would say he has probably had about 30 vaccines as well, including all the flu vaccines. Delivering a 2 pound baby gives you a different perspective to life threatening as well. I feel that vaccines were part of his protection.
I’m truly sorry for your daughter’s reaction. I don’t know what happened but I would truly continue to look into it. I read a story just a couple weeks ago of a child that they thought had a vaccine reaction and years later it turned out to be a rare genetic disorder that coincidentally made its appearance right after a vaccine. I will try to find the story again if you are interested.March 22, 2012 at 9:06 pm #1471
This is exactly my point: “I read a story just a couple weeks ago of a child that they thought had a vaccine reaction and years later it turned out to be a rare genetic disorder that coincidentally made its appearance right after a vaccine.”
Genes turn on and off due to methylation.
Vaccines interfere with methylation – especially when they contain harmful additives, heavy metals and potential allergens (egg).
This genetic disorder may not have reared its ugly head if the child did not get vaccinated.
I do want to say that there are instances where vaccines are needed – absolutely – I’ve said this before but want to emphasize that point.
In your child’s case, they appear to have been critical.
In 3rd world countries, they appear to be life-saving.
And there are other times to vaccinate as well –
But there clearly needs to be an exception to everyone being vaccinated as genetics vary tremendously.
When we know a child has a methylation defect or any defect which predisposes him/her to serious adverse effects from the vaccine, then it absolutely should be avoided if the costs outweigh the benefits.March 22, 2012 at 10:38 pm #1473
I am not well researched on the topic of vaccines, I only have personal experience of reactions – the pneumovax kicked off a CFS relapse and a travel vaccine for hepatitis left me with a really weird big/wide grey area of raised skin on my inner thigh. Who knows what happened internally that my eyes couldn’t witness.
I think some vaccines are absolutely necessary but there is definitely an element of overkill – an attitude of let’s vaccinate for absolutely everything and combine vaccines into one big dose. Its the latter two approaches that I have a problem with. Until we know for sure that vaccines are safe, it pays to err on the side of caution and only get the vaccines that are absolutely necessary.March 22, 2012 at 10:39 pm #1474
Would really appreciate some input about me strep/MTHFR/PANDAS question above if anyone has thoughtsMarch 22, 2012 at 11:07 pm #1475
Allison – please post your PANDAS question in the appropriate place – it needs to be a new question or posted in an area that is already discussing PANDAS –
Thanks!April 4, 2012 at 2:08 pm #1795
Great Topic. We are currently dealing with this exact issue! Without a doubt the vaccines triggered this mess for us. Our two year old was diagnosed with autism when he was 20 months old. He received the hep b vaccines then after that we opted against further vax’s. Bring us to his diagnoses we had a genetic test run and methylation panel to reveal that he has one c677T and one A1289T, his meth panel is all off. low glutathione high oxidized stress,low homocysteine etc.. After our bout with mb12 injections we have since moved to andrew cutler chelation. It appears our son has heavy metal issues and his not detoxing them properly. He is an undermethylator. We are also using NAC also. The alpha lipoic acid is doing wonderful things for him but I still feel that he needs more meth support
Dr. Ben… The chelation is revealing great results and we use supplements to support replacing his minerals and antioxidants. He gets epsom salt baths eats all organic foods and probiotics. but what can i do in regards to the b vitamins to get him on track. Language is progressing but anxiety is crazy he is terrified of children.April 5, 2012 at 9:42 am #1806
Low homocysteine may mean he may have a CBS mutation. The sulfur supplements may be great but be careful with how many you give.
This is a complex picture that I cannot readily give complete answers to without more history and time. – but I’ll do my best.
Some children do well with straight glutathione – and others do not. You may want to increase his glutathione levels directly.
Increased anxiety may be due to COMT mutation. Niacin helps with this. Consider giving him 25 mg of nicotinic acid or a 1/20th of a tablet of Niacin by Seeking Health. Have to balance the niacin though with further methyl groups as niacin depletes methyl groups – tricky business.
Have you tried a little bit of Sublingual Active B12 with Methylfolate? Consider giving him 1/4th a tablet directly by mouth.
Did the B12 injections go awry? If so – using cyanocobalamin?
A consult is needed here Marie to get somewhere in depth.
I am glad he is improving!April 10, 2012 at 2:54 am #1859
My daughter (12) has PANDAS (currently in third severe exacerbation and we\’re not seeing good improvement with IVIG this year), an immune deficiency (IgG in 500\’s & IgA around 30 – these are without IVIG), GERD, Migraines, Reactive Hypoglycemia and we just learned Friday, is homozygous for MTHFR A1298C. Our Pediatrician is still waiting for results from the heavy metal & dopamine labs… we also need to discuss what else needs to be checked in labs.
Historically, she\’s had bumps up in her hepatic panel (AST around 70 – 170), elevated urine porphyrins, elevated B12… I\’m starting to see the pieces fit together.
What other labs would be appropriate to run related to the MTHFR A1298C for her and what supplementation would be applicable for her?
Thank you!April 17, 2012 at 2:34 am #1914
Can anyone answer the post I made above, last week, please?
Thanks!April 18, 2012 at 1:56 am #1921
I usually dont reply to this kind of contraversy, but I felt I Must. 4 years ago, my daughter reacted badly and very concerning to her 2 month vaccines, my wonderful Pediatrican was concerned and took some items out of the next round at 4 months………. She reacted worse, he said he will never vaccinate her again….then she developed allergies to everything, 30 foods!!…Diareaha, she distant/no smiles, stopped developing. I freaked and hit the ground running…… with the interventions of my ND, Methly b-12 shots,compounded multi, antifungal, epsom salt baths etc, …….this all made sense when I discovered she was Positve mthfr 677/1298 one each……….. MY POINT IS- If I would of known about her genetic mutation…..I would not of vaccinated her!… SHe is a now heathly, smarty pants 4 1/2 year old as i continue my ongoing protocal. We need to take to appropriate precautions regarding our families.April 20, 2012 at 4:51 am #1938
Melba, you are so right!! i think it\\\’s terrible that kids are being vaccinated with a \\\”one for all\\\” approach when clearly not every kid can process the vaccines accordingly.
How often did you administer the MB12 shots? What exactly was compounded in your multi.
High five** for reacting promptly to your daughter’s needs. So happy she is progressing wonderfully!
Dr. Ben I will try out our recommendations.
They were Methyl B12 shots and we didn’t see any positives or negatives. I will look into the subli MB 12 with methylfolate. I will keep you updated. Thank you!April 21, 2012 at 3:42 am #1948
We did her methyl b-12 w/follinc acid shots twice a week (but stopped follinic 2 years later, started giving folate),but continued on with her methyl b-12 shots she was put her on neocate)(amino acid based non dairy) until 2 1/2 years. She ate kinda like the paleo diet as an infant (alot of fruit veggies and protien….. Epsom salt bath every night, and epsom salt cream applied night and day. Compounded vitamin: I think the actual compound of the vitamin mattered ie Vit A palimate vs Vit Acetate. We chose them all carfully. vit A Acetate, selenium yeast, vit e succinate, thiamine, riboflavin 5 phos, 5-mthf, methyl b-12, biotin, cal citrate, mag citrate, ferrous sulfate, co q10, niacinmide, panthenol, zinc sulfate, p5p, vit K. Not everything works for everyone, but I thought I would relay what I did. this and methyl b-12 shots, and GFCF and feingold diet, enzymes, probiotics …has fingers cross helped her grown into an amazing little sassy, smart talkin gal! If you have a ppo and a compounding pharmacy. This was covered under my insurance, just call insurance and ask for ins compunding benefit.April 26, 2012 at 2:41 pm #1993
I’m homo c677t. When I was vaccinated as a baby,it caused my leg to swell up. My mom says it was huge, bright red and hot to the touch. I was very ill and had to drag that leg around for weeks when I crawled.
When my daughter received vaccinations at 6mos. and it made her so ill that she cried for 3 days straight(until she was hoarse), she was limp like a rag doll, had high fevers and didn’t eat much. That was her last one…I said never again. I have to fill out special paperwork every year for school and I get ridiculed a lot.
I was told that the “ingredients” in vaccines now vs. when I was a baby (70’s) is like 5x..is this true?
“Love them. Protect them. Never inject them”.November 29, 2012 at 9:46 pm #5559
I was wondering if you thought that the HIB vaccines (specifically ActHib) would pose some of the same risks discussed above since it’s ingredients are saline, sucrose & the conjugated toxoid? I am homozygous C677T, so my daughter is at least hetrozygous and this is the only vaccine that I have felt somewhat comfortable giving her. (She’s had 2 doses & one does of Prevnar. We are no longer giving the Prevnar due to a eczema reaction following that inital dose.) But, I’m still concerned that there may be some implications to giving her the Hib vaccine that I may not have yet recognized. She is currently 16 mos. & due for her Hib booster.
I know that this is my decision to make as her parent, I am just trying to be sure that I am completely edcuated as to both the risk of the disease and the risks of the vaccine. Thanks for any thoughts/insight you can offer!December 15, 2012 at 7:01 pm #5746
Hi Dr. Ben,
I am currently pregnant and due in about 5 1/2 weeks to have a baby boy. I am homo for C677TT MTHFR mutation, so I know my children will have at least 1 copy of the bad gene (my husband is going to get his MTHFR test in the next couple of weeks). Right now we are trying to figure out the vaccination schedule, if at all, for our baby…
For children with hetero MTHFR C677 mutations, what are your thoughts on vaccines and the contraindications? Are there any research studies that can back this up?
p.s. I have a 14 yr old nephew who was just diagnosed as a PANDAS kid (he had a reaction to the MMR at age 2 – I believe it was a thimerosol shot)January 10, 2013 at 8:38 pm #6066
Husband, daughter and I all two copies of homozygous C677T. Daughter has Asperger’s diagnosis. Pretty sure she had PANDA at ~11 when she blew through $100K in treatment in a year with 6 hospitalizations and a 5-month stint in a residential treatment facility.
Planned carefully for granddaughter’s immunizations: waited until 10 mos, selected single dose version, etc. Supported immunization with supplements.
Within a couple days following, she went from a solid 15 word vocabulary with another couple dozen less solidly used words to one word (Mama) used as a distress cry rather than an identifier for her mother. She presented a flat affect, and was easily distressed. This continued for 4 months.
This child is not receiving any additional vaccines.
I wonder if those doctors firing patients who won’t vaccinate, and those people making blanket claims that vaccines are suitable for 99.999% of the population seriously think that my granddaughter owes her mental health to the altar of “herd immunity”?
There is a big effort to disconnect vaccines from autism disorders in the mind of the public, but that information does not match my experience. My daughter’s demeanor also radically changed within days of her first immunizations, developing severe and painful digestive issues, crying long and loud enough to elicit comments from neighbors 5 houses away.
Autism affects something like 1/70 boys and 1/120 girls now. How many childhood diseases knock a kid out of meaningful relationships and sustaining employment?March 15, 2013 at 9:24 am #8298
|August 12, 2013 at 11:24 am #376759
I wanted to put a slightly different slant on this topic.
I am hetro comp and my husband has a hetro A1298 gene. It is possible our 2 year old has homozygous A1298. Up until recently she has been vaccinated, until, we discovered what we know now about our genetic variants. We have stopped vaccination until we have her tested. A friend has chosen not to vaccinate traditionally, but she has vaccinated her children. I will find out more, but what she has said to me that it is the same as traditional vaccination but instead of ‘live’ virus it is ‘dead’. Also heavy metals are not needed as carriers. She assures me this has value as a preventative against disease.
I WILL not vaccinate my child if she is MTHFR positive, why would I take the risk, but if I choose to keep her vaccinations going with this alternative method, our government (Australia) will not recognise this at all. Isn’t it time we started talking about alternative methods and allowing those who are sensitive and at risk, another pathway to prevent disease ?
I’m growing impatient with the mainstream mentality, that the risks are low. If you are a parent with a high risk child, that ‘low’ risk means you could change your child’s and your life for ever … and my heart goes out to those who are faced with this now.August 31, 2013 at 3:41 pm #376881
All this vaccine stuff is overwhelming. I am compound Heterozygous and looking for direction on vaccinating the children. I have a 2 month old now and a 6 year old (I don’t know their MTHFR status), neither have been vaccinated. My 18 and 16 year old have. The 18 year old went through some odd allergy experiences being allergic to different foods and animals (one day it was tomatoes, the next day it was something else but not tomatoes) then allergy symptoms changed and finally settled into asthma. That was the only odd vaccination related reaction we had.
Anyway, I’m trying to research vaccinations and it seems like it’s dangerous to get the vaccines and dangerous not to. It seems that whatever one side says, the other side could use the same type arguments. The doctors use the CDC and FDA and herd immunity as their support arguments. The people that are opposed to vaccines only have others/self experiences and doctors are not accepting this as being reasonable or having enough medical merit. (They ask “where are the documented studies? or they bring up examples of outbreaks involving unvaccinated children.) This is all very frustrating. Also, some states don’t allow any vaccine exemption other than a medical exemption signed by a doctor or a religious exemption signed by the minister (which means the whole church has to have an agreed conviction against vaccines). I am personally leery of vaccines but the doctors have made me fearful of the diseases as well.
My questions would be: for MTHFR people, if there is one of the diseases, such as whooping cough or measles, going around, would it be better for the child to get vaccinated or get the disease (the child is in good health, not sickly)? If the child were to get vaccinated, is there some sort of vitamin protocol you would recommend to stave off the toxicity issues? And, what sort of info can I bring to the doctor that would explain, in summary, why vaccines are not a good thing for MTHFR people (in medical language so they can get the medical facts of possible complications and why)?September 5, 2013 at 12:02 pm #376958
I am 53 years old got the flu shot (H1N1) 2 years ago and immediately ended up in the ER. I have had daily debilitating migraines and inflammation ever since with intense face pain mostly on the left side of my head. I went the ER twice, to every medical specialist, and was under the treatment of a neurologist who diagnosed me with daily chronic migraine. She said it had nothing to do with food. It just didn’t make sense that I could have a migraine 24 hours a day, 7 days a week!
I finally found doctor who diagnosed me with compound heterzygous MTHFR. I have been on an elimination diet and found I have multiple chemical sensitivities and food intolerances to dairy, gluten, eggs, nuts, many fruits, coffee, tea, wine…I am also sensitive to plastics and new furniture and my nose and mouth begin to hurt and tighten when I am around them. I am in the process of cleaning up my toxic home, going green, and buying organic food.
I am being treated with methylfolate and methylcobolamine and have had 2 amazing weeks. I can finally breathe and have no migraine, unless I eat the wrong things.
1. Will I have these sensitivities forever — did my immune system change for life?
2. Does my pregnant daughter need to be tested? Her doctor thinks not, and she has lupus and hypothyroidism.
3. What about the shingles vaccine, does that have mercury and preservatives in it? Both my parents had very bad shingles.
4. Do these vaccines cause autism in those people with MTHFR? I read that 98% of autistic children are positive for MTHRF. It certainly caused havoc with my brain, and I could articulate what was wrong with me, babies are helpless. I am a teacher, and we have so many more autisic children now, when will the medical community recognize this mutation? I am not again vaccines for the general population and realize how important they are!!
I am so glad to have found this website and will continue to do research on this topic to help me find answers.
I believe the elimination diet and proper supplements have given me back my life!
AllisonSeptember 20, 2013 at 9:59 pm #377219
I just recently learned that I have the MTHFR polymorphism. I’ve been reading about the vaccine contraindications. My workplace in a medical school is mandating flu vaccines. Can you point me in the direction of a solid article that states such vaccines are contraindicated? Thank you!September 21, 2013 at 12:23 am #377221
Is it only specific MTHFR mutations or mutation combinations where vaccines are counterindicated? It seems that some form or other of a MTHFR mutation is VERY common (certainly higher than 30%). If everyone with an MTHFR mutation did not get vaccinated, surely there would be some negative public health repercussions like a resurgence of whooping cough.September 21, 2013 at 5:02 am #377226
there’s already a massive resurgence of whooping cough despite high levels of vaccination. governments continue to blame non-vaccinators, but in reality the cases have gone up even when vaccine levels have gone up. the current whooping cough shot does not protect against the most common strains of whooping cough – especially in Australia.
but let’s change the premise of the argument…..yes, some diseases would re-emerge without vaccines (possibly). but that is not always a bad thing. Many of the diseases that we have eradicated have incredibly positive effects in some people. I personally would very much like to see mumps return. mumps virus is strongly correlated with a high degree of PROTECTION from ovarian cancer. (search pubmed, it’s easy to find.) Why on earth would I vaccinate my daughters for a disease that can protect them from a very deadly cancer when the supposed risk of mumps is only testicular atrophy in little boys? (and that risk is very very rare anyway). there are many other examples. hard as it may be to believe, disease is not always bad. not all diseases have good effects of course (we won’t be exposing them to hep B!), but at the moment we are over-vaccinating for some diseases to our detriment. I personally will be looking very hard to try to find a case of mumps for my girls to catch. I could not forgive myself if they got ovarian cancer and they hadn’t had that opportunity, if it was presented to me.
The other thing to consider is that many of the diseases that we vaccinate for have very effective ‘alternative’ treatments – such as whooping cough and vitamin C. I have personal experience with that one. We cured it faster than the doctor thought he could do it with his antibiotics. Do a little more digging if you aren’t keen on vaccination. it’s not just about whether or not the vaccines are harmful. look at whether the disease is beneficial, and whether there are alternative treatments instead. Also look at which vaccines INCREASE the risk of getting other diseases. for instance, if you vaccinate for HiB you’re much more likely to get more serious HiF infections instead. Many other examples of that sort of thing too. (anyone ever wondered why Meningococcal disease suddenly became more common?)September 21, 2013 at 5:06 pm #377233
Another thing that is causing a rise in the “old” diseases is that people are making poor food choices. They are not getting the proper nutrients for their bodies to fight off illnesses. I learned this at the Food as Medicine conference sponsored by the Mind Body Medicine Center in DC. People need to go back to the basics of nature rather than all the processed junk food containing nothing but chemicals, high fructose corn syrup, sugar, etc. These foods are garbage and causing lots of health issues. Americans, in particular, have been brain washed into eating all these packaged foods and it’s leading to super obesity and chronic inflammation and illness. Our bodies need real food: fruits, vegetables, beans, greens like spinach, chard, collard, etc.September 22, 2013 at 12:03 am #377236
Nicole, I think you make a good point – all vaccines are not equal. I agree that there is still a lot unknown about the long term effectiveness or side effects of some of them, especially the newer ones. In addition, viruses are continuously evolving, so it is somewhat inevitable that newer vaccines have to be developed for things like influenza and pertussis. I do not have a problem with researching all of the vaccines available and selectively choosing or delaying some of them. But some vaccines prevent illnesses that were absolutely devastating 100 or more years ago, before the advent of processed foods. There are huge risks to avoiding all vaccines, and the decision can profoundly affect the lives of other families, especially those with children with cancer or other illnesses that prevent them from receiving vaccines themselves and make them more susceptible. We live in a global society, with a constant risk of diseases like polio and measles being reintroduced to the US or our children encountering them if they choose to travel else where.
Here’s a resent news story about Measles: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/health/worst-measles-year/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Here’s some personal stories if you are interested: http://shotbyshot.org/
I want to stress I am not trying to change anyone’s mind or invalidate anyone’s feelings or opinions. People who are vehemently pro all vaccines all the time on the CDCs schedule without wanting to hear any other perspectives make me feel a bit crazy too. I just want to offer a different perspective for those who may be one the fence about not doing any vaccines. As I said earlier, if there is a specific combination of mutations that makes vaccines very risky, I would like to know about it. I just question whether MTHFR by itself could truly make any vaccination more dangerous than no vaccinations when it is such a common mutation.September 22, 2013 at 2:58 am #377240
Chelsea I tried to look at those links but the top one didn’t work.
I presume it’s another story about measles being ‘the worst ever this year’ or something along those lines based on the headline?
Of course in some years there are outbreaks of illnesses. however when we hear that ‘this is going to be a bad year’ for such and such (usually the flu) it’s always worth bearing in mind that the authorities/drug companies say this EVERY year (about the flu at least) in order to push people to vaccinate more. In fact people have published leaked documents in which vaccine companies and official sources such as the CDC have asked their media personnel to emphasise that it was going to be a bad year in order to sell more vaccine, even if it isn’t true. So when I see headlines like that I shrug a little.
I had the measles at age 19 DESPITE full vaccination (in fact I was done twice since I got measles vax only, then MM – and I’d had a top up of MMR as well). So for a start – is it really worth vaccinating (and taking the risk) when there’s pretty decent chances that it wont’ work? Secondly, like for mumps, there are some serious benefits to measles. It has been known to cure some kidney conditions for a start. My daughter has a kidney problem – I would be thrilled if she got the measles – seriously!
We are told about the complications like pneumonia and encephalitis. What we aren’t told is that these complications are MUCH MORE COMMON when the children are ‘treated’ with fever-reducing medications; also when they are allowed to overstimulate their retinas and brains by watching tv when they have the measles. (Our grandmothers were right when they made their measles-sick kids stay in the dark in bed.) In fact, studies in Africa show that when one hospital is told not to give anti-fever medications to measles cases, and another hospital is encouraged to do so, children die THREE TIMES more often if they are given the meds.
Also, studies clearly show that these complications occur at a tiny fraction of the rate if children are given vitamin A during their measles. Encephalitis basically disappears.
My point is that even for some of these supposedly more dangerous illnesses, the vast vast majority of cases are mild and have no complications, and it is possible to ensure that your child has very little chance of having anything go wrong – by supplementing, keeping them healthy and quiet when ill – and not reducing fever. Also ensuring that they get these diseases at the optimal age – between 5 and 15 years old. In the old days this happened naturally as these viruses circulated amongst children – adults were already immune, mums passed on immunity to babies through their breastmilk – babies were protected until they were old enough to wean and to handle measles (breastfeeding naturally continues until a few years old, not a few months) – the cycle continued. now mums do not pass immunity on to their children because they are vaccinated, and vaccines do not produce immunity in the breastmilk. babies can catch it – and yes, they can die. Babies didn’t used to get measles though. now that we vaccinate, they do. This applies to whooping cough as well. I’ll also bet that once the new generation of mothers who were vaccinated for chicken pox starts having babies, chicken pox will become a deadly illness of infancy. Just wait and see.
I’m glad I had measles, chicken pox and whooping cough! My babies have all been exposed to whooping cough while they were little (by VACCINATED contacts who were infected, by the way) and none caught it – except my oldest who got it just after she stopped breastfeeding at 17 months – she had been exposed continuously through a church epidemic, and didn’t catch it for months until she weaned. And because we had chosen not to vaccinate, we were informed before hand and knew how to treat it effectively. this is essential.
To choose not to vaccinate and simply hope your kid doesn’t catch anything is foolishness. If you’re going to go that route, thoroughly educate yourself on how to recognise and treat the illnesses. Don’t rely on doctors! most won’t recognise these ‘old fashioned’ diseases, and almost all will try to treat your child (with antibiotics or fever-reducing medications) in a way that will make them worse. Sure, consult a doctor if you need to, but you need to know your own stuff too – they’re you’re kids and you have to take responsibility for the time when they will almost certainly catch something.
More info on measles is in this link:September 22, 2013 at 4:03 am #377241
Thank you for your very well articulated response Nicole. It sounds like you have carefully thought about this for you and your children.
I think so much of this depends on whether you approach it from and individual or public health position. Do we have a greater duty to think of our own children, or also others who our decisions might affect? Most of us would honestly answer our greatest priority is our own children. Yet, I could not help but fear that my child carrying the measles or chicken pox vaccine might infect some other child before I knew they had it whose parents were either not so well educated, or who had other health ailments.
It is certainly true that vaccines are not effective 100% of the time. Most of the time getting a vaccine at least reduces the severity of the illness if you do get it. Regardless, while it is certainly true that measles does not have to be fatal or so serious when properly treated, look at the statistics globally:
“Since 2000, more than one billion children in high risk countries were vaccinated against the disease through mass vaccination campaigns ― about 225 million of them in 2011. Global measles deaths have decreased by 71% from an estimated 548 000 to 158 000.” – http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
That’s enough prevented deaths for me to make the argument on widespread vaccination with exemptions. Not vaccinating on a case by case, individual educated basis seems relatively safe. The entire population of people with any MTHFR mutation (up to 50%) refusing to vaccinate entirely does not.September 22, 2013 at 11:21 am #377245
You are so right Chelsea about our responsibility to other people. which is why I do not take my children out of the house if they even have a cold, or signs of extra fatigue etc. I only wish some other people would do that!
Thank you for the link. I would like to see the data from 1989 until 2000 (the previous eleven year period) to see how much death rates fell before this big boost in vaccinating. Sometimes death rates have already started to fall at the same rate before vaccination – in which case the vaccine really should get less credit than it does. Also important is to look at the total number of deaths in the vaccinated age group compared to others. Some of the trials of measles vaccine in Senegal and other African countries demonstrated that while measles was reduced, getting the vaccine increased a child’s risk of getting other deadly infections instead. it’s never black and white!
Interestingly I noted in that link under ‘signs and symptoms’ that they also mentioned what I did – that measles is much worse for a child with insufficient vitamin A. This is why I strongly support charities that provide vitamin A supplementation in third world countries – vit A protects against measles, rubella, chicken pox and other virus complications (not to mention the chances of getting the virus itself) and protects eyesight. it’s a vital program that improves health in many ways – without negative side effects like vaccines. Yet many of these programs cannot get funding because vaccine programs get more support. I would far rather support a child getting a supplement with no risk, that improves their health in many ways and protects them from measles complications, than support them getting a shot that only reduces their chance of one disease – and may make them less healthy in other ways. So that is how I exercise my responsibility to others. Plus I try to educate where I can of course on how to stay as healthy as possible- vaccinated or not!
If everyone with MTHFR refused to vaccinate, and didn’t bother to educate themselves – tried to treat diseases with aspirin and antibiotics – there would be big increases in some diseases. (probably less than authorities predict actually). I would hope that it would be different if the medical profession looked at some of the alternative and nutritional treatments for these diseases. But I know that’s really not likely to happen. So in the meantime, either the parents have to educate themselves (AND isolate any sick children, even if it only seems mild, vaccinated or not) OR they should consider homeopathic prophylaxis Or they may prefer to take the risk of vaccines. but to not vaccinate and do nothing else – I’m not the type that could be comfortable with a ‘let’s hope’ strategy.August 24, 2014 at 11:55 pm #383439
Hello Dr Lynch and everyone in the forum.
I found about MTHFR mutation in a tongue tie group. My son was born with some severe ties, he showed sines of dairy allergy since birth, and at 4 months after vaccination he did a huge reaction with high fever, lethargy, 10 days of urticaria and followed by eczema. I stopped every the vaccines. But my son developed more foods allergies, like gluten, eggs, mushrooms, nuts… And some more… I think that we may have MTHFR mutation, my son is only 16 months, and still breastfeed. I took acid folic in pregnancy and I was pretty sick all the time. There’s anything that I can do to help my son or just food diet that I already do? (We eat mostly everything organic).
Thank you.September 29, 2014 at 5:36 am #383671
study about vaccines, contraindications & MTHFR.September 29, 2014 at 10:29 am #383673
Thanks mate! An interesting article. The evidence is slowly buildingOctober 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm #383751
I am fascinated by what I’ve read here. I have spent many months researching vaccines from every angle and come to the conclusion that the debate regarding their use/avoidance often says more about human psychology and ideology than it does about facts, truth, or good science.
My wish is multifold: 1) for a more individualized approach to vaccination, with screening for MTHFR, PANDAS, and other contraindications; 2) for pediatricians who claim they love children more than a fat paycheck to take parents seriously when they request such screening and/or choose to desist from some/all vaccines; and 3) for the role of nutrient support of immune function to gain traction in public and mainstream medical consciousness.
It might also be nice for everyone on both sides of the divide to acknowledge 1) that even high antibody titers after vaccination do not equate to definite immunity (hygeine and quarantine are still essential, and believing oneself impervious to infection after vaccination is a very poor idea); 2) that the likelihood of vaccine injury goes up among the malnourished (as do infectious disease incidence and morbidity/mortality), and the predominant North American diet assures malnutrition and, therefore, disease, regardless of vaccination status; and 3) that vaccines are either potent triggers for immune response and a cascade of biochemical processes ideally leading to disease resistance, OR they are “non-toxic, gentle, and far more benign than environmental toxins, which exist in far greater concentrations in food, air, and water than in vaccines” (which is the gist of what max-vax advocates and at least one commenter here have proposed) — sorry folks, but lab tissue studies do not support the contention that vaccines can be both effective catalysts for a number of biochemical processes and simultaneously incapable of causing the kinds of metabolic harm that leads to an autism diagnosis.
Ergo, vaccines can work in concert with other preexisting conditions and environmental triggers to become causative for autism. Denying the fact is obnoxious and makes one look deliberately deceptive.
I’m a science-literate dad – not a doctor – but here is my research into mechanisms by which vaccines may cause an array of diseases and dysfunctions: http://magellan35.wordpress.com/author/magellan35/
Am I anti-vaccine after doing the research? In principle, no. In practice – *heavy sigh* – let’s just say that parents need to research carefully and not be bullied into doing anything contrary to their beliefs after conducting said research.
MTHFR screening is definitely a step in the right direction.October 9, 2014 at 1:15 am #383759
Hi Dr. Lynch,
I found out 2 mo ago I am heterozygous for MTHFR C677T. I saw your FB post this morning concerning MTHFR and nitrous oxide and left a comment regarding your thoughts on the flu vaccine (I just recovered from a nasty 24 hr bug). I read a handful of the above posts but many are outdated. What’s your suggestion for my situation: 35 yr old female, heterozygous C677T, teacher of mini humans—get sick often.
Any suggestions you can send my way would be great!