Problems with hormone/methyl folate/ heavy metals/general methylation

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Kathryn 7 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • May 15, 2012 at 11:40 am #2155

    Blair

    Hi,

    So I just got back a few test results from my doc and was wondering if you could help me? I feel it is necessary to fill in some back story in places, some of that info I feel will also be helpful to some people too.

    Firstly the Complete Male Hormones Profile from Genova Diagnostics shows I am low in pregnenolone and DHEA (borderline low). i have read that mercury can cause a reduction in pregnenolone in Andy Cutler’s book “Amalgam illness” so I have ordered some from iherb and will give it a try. Methylation is also poor due to low levels of the methylated estrogens (good estrogens). Estrogens are generally low across the board (except 2-Hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1), this is probably because I was taking DIM at the time which is an aromatase inhibitor. It also encourages conversion of the bad estrogens to good estrogens hence the good 2-OHE1 result. I think estrogens are generally low also because pregnenolone is low causing less testosterone to be aromatised to estrogens. Any thoughts on this?

    I also got my red cell magnesium back which was slightly low. I am now currently injecting 0.5ml of magnesium every other day. This helps with my energy quite a lot, I understand mag has a part to play in methylation too?

    I had a urine DMSA provocation test done also. I have had this once before approx a year and a half ago which showed very high levels of aluminum, mercury, lead, arsenic, barium, copper and nickel! Basically I was a walking toxic dump! The most recent test that came back showed aluminum still quite elevated mercury reduced by more than half, lead is lowered by more than half, arsenic practically gone, barium not detected, copper still high and nickel within limits but still quite high. I took DMSA for 6 months to clear my body burden, I was taking 125mg a day 6 days a week (sundays are lazy!) with breaks. My severe acne disappeared soon after this as did some other annoying problems too. I then added in ALA with the DMSA at a dosage of 100mg a day, same schedule. Things started looking up but chelation is tough sometimes! I am currently only using DMSA as according to Andy Cutler (Amalgam Illness specialist) ALA increases copper retention and could explain why I am still struggling with copper (the white lines/spots on the nails can indicate a zinc deficiency due to copper). To lower copper I am taking 100mg zinc and 2,000mcg of molybdenum daily. I have noticed I felt a little more ‘normal’ since doing this. The white lines on my fingernails are fading and growing out too. Strange! Copper also blocks zinc, folate and B1 so I want less of it!

    I understand people will tell me that this schedule goes against Andy Cutlers idea of perfect chelation however as I far as I am concerned I wanted to get this stuff out of me as fast as I could without causing too many side effects. It seems to be working for me.

    I am now currently taking TMG 1,000mg which has improved my allergies (wheat, dairy, yeast) and energy. I experienced diarrhea for a week or so after introducing TMG and then noticed after this that I could tolerate starchy foods again i.e. potatoes, parsnips and cooked carrots. These would normally give me bad diarrhea. I have only started taking TMG recently so the test was performed before I started taking it. However before the test was done I was taking methyl B-12 and folinic acid (5-Formyl Tetrahydrofolate) so clearly methylation was still poor despite this. I have tried methyl folate in the past but simply cannot tolerate it, it makes me feel extremely tired and fatigued and a bit depressed too. I have read on this forum that could be due to a COMT or CBS problem. I have tried to understand this by using this website;

    http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Outcomes-Non-CV-Autism-Methyl%20Cycle.htm

    It gives a good explanation of it. However it is all a bit much too take in and I am not sure why I cannot tolerate methyl folate. What could be causing this?

    Due to my intolerance of thiols (sulphur) I have been on a low thiol diet since maybe two years ago. Reducing thiols made me feel a whole lot better. Only last week I introduced some cruciferous vegetable and tolerated them well. Normally this would of given me terrible headaches and fatigue. From what I have gathered from Andy Cutler thiols cause mercury to be redistributed around the body. Garlic and onions are still a no go, probably because they are very sulphury, these make me feel terrible still.

    Recently I also introduced Norival which contains P5P, something I couldn’t previously tolerate due to the fact it drives cysteine which I think was causing mercury distribution. Well now I can tolerate two caps (20mg P5P). This has improved my mood so much! I wonder if this ties into the COMT or CBS problem somehow? I decided to introduce this as aluminum blocks the enzyme necessary to recycle BH2 into BH4. It is still clear from the DMSA test that I am still dealing with aluminum. Seems to be working….. It seems to of increased my dopamine and serotonin. I feel happier and brighter.

    May 15, 2012 at 11:44 am #2156

    Blair

    p.s the methyl B-12 is injections I am currently taking are 0.1ml every other day. I previously tried cyan B-12 but didn\’t notice much benefit.

    May 17, 2012 at 12:05 am #2173

    Lynn_M

    Have you had genetic testing to know if you have either of the MTHFR mutations or any other methylation pathway mutation?

    If you want a functional test to determine what is going wrong with your methylation pathways, the methylation pathways panel test by Health Diagnostics and Research Institute of South Amboy, NJ is highly recommended by Dr. Rich Konykenburg. Health Diagnostics changed their name last year; they used to be called Vitamin Diagnostics. Dr. Ben offers a test by Vitamin Diagnostics, and perhaps it is the same one.

    When you took 125 mg. DMSA a day, did you take that much in a single daily dose, or was it split up?

    According to Freddd at forums.phoenixrising.me, if you feel any effect at all from methylfolate, good or bad, it means you need it. Some people need to start with crumbs of methylfolate diluted in water, and then drink just a drop.

    May 20, 2012 at 9:19 pm #2205

    M

    I have just started taking a supplement called \\\”metal magic\\\” at baseline nutritionals for aluminum toxicity. I have just been taking it for a couple days but have already noticed a difference in clearing aluminum from system-http://www.baselinenutritionals.com/products/book.php this is the site to order it from…, also this is a good article explaining how it helps,I have just started taking a supplement called metal magic at baseline nutritionals I have just been taking it for a couple days but have already noticed a difference in clearing aluminum from system, http://www.baselinenutritionals.com/products/book.php this is the site to order it from. Also this is a good article explaining how it helps, I have just started taking a supplement called metal magic at baseline nutritionals I have just been taking it for a couple days but have already noticed a difference in clearing aluminum from my system, this is a good article on how it helps I have just started taking a supplement called metal magic at baseline nutritionals I have just been taking it for a couple days but have already noticed a difference in clearing aluminum from system, http://www.jonbarron.org/detox/barron-report-heavy-metal-cleanse-herbal.

    June 6, 2012 at 11:11 am #2399

    B

    Hi Lynn,

    I have not had any genetic testing.

    What do you think would be best the vitamin diagnostics or the genetic testing? I suppose the vitamin diagnostics methylation panel would point towards a genetic problem anyway based on the results? But of course would not give a definite answer.

    Thanks,
    B.

    June 6, 2012 at 11:12 am #2400

    B

    p.s the DMSA was split up into four doses. I know this is not Andy Cutler esque….but I did not agree with that protocol.

    June 6, 2012 at 4:51 pm #2402

    Lynn_M

    B, there’s been a lot of discussion of genetic testing vs. functional testing at the methylation threads at forums.phoenixrising.me. Several people at least expressed the sentiment that they found functional testing to be far more useful. Our understanding of genetics is still pretty primitive, especially as to how various polymorphisms interact with each other, so genetics doesn’t always give good information about what to do. Whereas functional testing does give indications of what to do.

    The advantage of a genetic test, as I see it, is that you know if you have a lifelong impediment and must always adjust accordingly. Whereas the functional test just tells you how you are reacting to your current state of inputs. It’s more of a snapshot in time.

    I called Dr. Ben’s office and they confirmed that the Vitamin Diagnostics test offered at Seeking Health is done by Health Diagnostics and Research Institute, the new name for Vitamin Diagnostics. So I think that would be a good next step. Dr. Konykenburg recommends metabolic profile be done at the same time, such as the Metametrix ION Profile or the Genova Diagnostics NutrEval profile. These two are available from directlabs.com without a doctor’s order.

    Those results may motivate you to get genetic testing eventually. I think the information available through genetic testing will evolve exponentially, with more info being available at a cheaper price, and with a greater understanding of what it all means. So there’s merit in functional testing first and then waiting to get more bang for your buck out of future genetic tests.

    Do you disagree with Andy Cutler’s premise that you should dose the chelator at it’s half-life interval in order to keep the heavy metal streaming out of the body, instead of letting it redeposit with a longer interval between doses? I think that is the crux of his protocol.

    June 6, 2012 at 5:04 pm #2403

    Lynn_M

    I’ve been spelling Dr. Rich van Konynenburg’s name wrong. His online name is Richvank. He has a good interpretation of the Vitamin Diagnostic’s (now HDRI) methylation pathway panel at http://www.mecfsforums.com/index.php?topic=290.0

    August 18, 2012 at 4:10 am #3190

    Jennifer Walls

    This is interesting because last year I was told I needed to take both Pregnenolone and DHEA, dx by blood draw. I am seeing here how my MTHFR (home 1298) could be related to the Preg and DHEA. I have had night sweats for a couple of years, and then just this summer have felt more hot than usual. Maybe it\\\’s just the hotter weather! I guess I\\\’ll be able to tell in winter time. Any thoughts? So Pregnenolone and DHEA are related to MTHFR?

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